linux mkfs.vfat vs normal/windows fat32

[Istvan Gabor]

Hello:

I have a usb flash disk with one partition. I have formatted this partition in openSUSE 12.2 using mkfs.vfat. The formatted partition could be mounted in openSUSE and in Windows XP, but my media player could not see the partition (gave error message) and Mac OSX could not mount it either. I have reformatted the partition in the Mac (I can't remember the application's name) and now the disk is usable in my media player along with Mac OSX, openSUSE and Windows.

My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.vfat that the formatted partition is not functional everywhere? How could I make fat32 formatted partition in openSUSE which is usable in my media player and is mountable in Mac OSX?

Thanks,

Istvan

[John Andersen]

Post by Istvan Gabor
I have a usb flash disk with one partition. I have formatted this partition in openSUSE 12.2 using mkfs.vfat. The formatted partition could be mounted in openSUSE and in Windows XP, but my media player could not see the partition (gave error message) and Mac OSX could not mount it either. I have reformatted the partition in the Mac (I can't remember the application's name) and now the disk is usable in my media player along with Mac OSX, openSUSE and Windows.
My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.vfat that the formatted partition is not functional everywhere? How could I make fat32 formatted partition in openSUSE which is usable in my media player and is mountable in Mac OSX?
Thanks,
Istvan

How big was this flash drive?

There are (artificial) size limitations that Microsoft started enforcing in Winxp and Forward.
Win 2k could read these, but they dropped support for that in later os.

These larger devices do work per the spec, but which microsoft won't let you format so as to
force you to use a later version of fat, (which is still under patent protection). I think
Linux will let you use these larger sizes with fat32, but they may not be readable

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc938432.aspx

Since they license this new version to device manufacturers

[James Knott]

Post by John Andersen
There are (artificial) size limitations that Microsoft started enforcing in Winxp and Forward.
Win 2k could read these, but they dropped support for that in later os.
These larger devices do work per the spec, but which microsoft won't let you format so as to
force you to use a later version of fat, (which is still under patent protection). I think
Linux will let you use these larger sizes with fat32, but they may not be readable

Given that USB drives often come formatted with NTFS, that might also be
an option. Linux can read & write it and, as Macs are Unix based, they
should be able to handle it too.

[mararm]

Post by James Knott

Post by John Andersen
There are (artificial) size limitations that Microsoft started enforcing
in Winxp and Forward. Win 2k could read these, but they dropped support
for that in later os.
These larger devices do work per the spec, but which microsoft won't let
you format so as to force you to use a later version of fat, (which is
still under patent protection). I think Linux will let you use these
larger sizes with fat32, but they may not be readable

Given that USB drives often come formatted with NTFS, that might also be
an option. Linux can read & write it and, as Macs are Unix based, they
should be able to handle it too.

There is software out there to read and write ext2 and ext3 file systems on
windows. No need to stick with Microsoft invented file system formats.

Regards
mararm

[Carlos E. R.]

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Post by mararm
There is software out there to read and write ext2 and ext3 file systems on
windows. No need to stick with Microsoft invented file system formats.

Yes, there is, but that's an unpractical solution - assuming that you are
allowed to install anything on those machines.

And the OP is not only using Windows machines.

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

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[John Andersen]

Post by mararm

Post by James Knott

Post by John Andersen
There are (artificial) size limitations that Microsoft started enforcing
in Winxp and Forward. Win 2k could read these, but they dropped support
for that in later os.
These larger devices do work per the spec, but which microsoft won't let
you format so as to force you to use a later version of fat, (which is
still under patent protection). I think Linux will let you use these
larger sizes with fat32, but they may not be readable

Given that USB drives often come formatted with NTFS, that might also be
an option. Linux can read & write it and, as Macs are Unix based, they
should be able to handle it too.

There is software out there to read and write ext2 and ext3 file systems on
windows. No need to stick with Microsoft invented file system formats.
Regards
mararm

Any Idea where he could get a driver for his MP3 player that supports EXT2/3?

[mararm]

Post by John Andersen

Post by mararm
There is software out there to read and write ext2 and ext3 file systems on
windows. No need to stick with Microsoft invented file system formats.

Any Idea where he could get a driver for his MP3 player that supports EXT2/3?

Hard to say, especially without any knowlegde of that device. Any android-
based or embedded linux device should support ext2 by default.

[Greg Freemyer]

Believe it or not, but I'm pretty sure Macs don't gracefully handle ntfs.
You can get them to, but they don't have ntfs-3g or equivalent by default.
I faced this a couple years ago when I was trying to get a bunch of data
off a Mac. I did not find a graceful solution.

http://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-ntfs-for-mac/
Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

I'm looking for a solution for working with my clients computers.

I think I've seen that before, but it has to be installed. I really
am looking for a solution where nothing has to be installed in Windows
or MacOS. I control the linux box, so I can install as needed onto my
own box.

Greg

[John Andersen]

Post by James Knott
Given that USB drives often come formatted with NTFS, that might also be
an option. Linux can read & write it and, as Macs are Unix based, they
should be able to handle it too.

He mentioned Flash Drives, and I've yet to buy one that came with NTFS.
(I've formatted them thusly, but never bought them that way).

They all come witn Fat32 or exFat in my experiences.

[Per Inge Oestmoen]

Believe it or not, but I'm pretty sure Macs don't gracefully handle ntfs. You can get them to, but they don't have ntfs-3g or equivalent by default.
I faced this a couple years ago when I was trying to get a bunch of data off a Mac. I did not find a graceful solution.

I did find a very good solution, and here it is:

http://www.tuxera.com/products/tuxera-ntfs-for-mac/

Per Inge Oestmoen, Norway

[Greg Freemyer]

Post by John Andersen

Post by John Andersen
There are (artificial) size limitations that Microsoft started

enforcing in Winxp and Forward.

Post by John Andersen
Win 2k could read these, but they dropped support for that in later

os.

Post by John Andersen
These larger devices do work per the spec, but which microsoft won't

let you format so as to

Post by John Andersen
force you to use a later version of fat, (which is still under patent

protection). I think

Post by John Andersen
Linux will let you use these larger sizes with fat32, but they may

not be readable
Given that USB drives often come formatted with NTFS, that might also be
an option. Linux can read & write it and, as Macs are Unix based, they
should be able to handle it too.

Believe it or not, but I'm pretty sure Macs don't gracefully handle ntfs. You can get them to, but they don't have ntfs-3g or equivalent by default.

I faced this a couple years ago when I was trying to get a bunch of data off a Mac. I did not find a graceful solution.

Greg

[David Haller]

Hello,

Post by Istvan Gabor
My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.vfat that the formatted
partition is not functional everywhere? How could I make fat32
formatted partition in openSUSE which is usable in my media player
and is mountable in Mac OSX?

mkdosfs does not change the partition type. Have set that with
fdisk to the correct type (0x0b IIRC) from 0x07 (NTFS)? Linux does not
care about the partition type flag, but Windows does.

-dnh

[Istvan Gabor]

Greg Freemyer =C3=ADrta:=0A>=0A>=0A>On May 4, 2014 5:53:02 PM EDT, Istvan G=
abor <***@freemail.hu> wrote:=0A>>Hello:=0A>>=0A>>I have a usb flash=
disk with one partition. I have formatted this=0A>>partition in openSUSE 1=
2.2 using mkfs.vfat. The formatted partition=0A>>could be mounted in openSU=
SE and in Windows XP, but my media player=0A>>could not see the partition (=
gave error message) and Mac OSX could not=0A>>mount it either. I have refor=
matted the partition in the Mac (I can't=0A>>remember the application's nam=
e) and now the disk is usable in my media=0A>>player along with Mac OSX, op=
enSUSE and Windows.=0A>>=0A>>My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.=
vfat that the formatted=0A>>partition is not functional everywhere? How cou=
ld I make fat32=0A>>formatted partition in openSUSE which is usable in my m=
edia player and=0A>>is mountable in Mac OSX?=0A>>=0A>>Thanks,=0A>>=0A>>Istv=
an=0A>=0A>I'd like to know more about the details of this. I have a Mac I =
can dual boot into MacOS,=0A>but I rarely do that. If you tell me what too=
l you used on both openSUSE and the Mac=0A>and the size of the flash drive =
I could try to duplicate it.=0A>=0A>Fyi: I have some filesystem analysis to=
ols so I could send some reasonably detailed bug=0A>reports upstream.=0A=0A=
Thank you all for the replies!=0A=0AI played a little bit with the USB flas=
h disk. Now I suspect that the problem maybe=0Awas not the file system but =
the partition scheme and/or the partition ID on the flash drive.=0AI have r=
epartitioned the disk (using cfdisk) and set partiton type ID to 0B. Then =
I=0Aformatted the new partition issuing: mkdosfs -F 32 /dev/sdd.=0A=0ANow t=
he disk is visible in the media player. I had no chance to check it in a Ma=
c yet.=0A=0AFor those who might be interested I include here the partition =
tables as sfdisk dump files:=0A=0A1. Original partitions, not working in Ma=
c and the media player:=0A=0A# partition table of /dev/sdd=0Aunit: sectors=
=0A=0A/dev/sdd1 : start=3D 23, size=3D 7989225, Id=3D83=0A/dev/sdd2 =
: start=3D 0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=0A/dev/sdd3 : start=3D =
0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=0A/dev/sdd4 : start=3D 0, size=3D =
0, Id=3D 0=0A=0A2. Mac OSX "disc utility" made partition table:=0A=0A# =
partition table of /dev/sdd=0Aunit: sectors=0A=0A/dev/sdd1 : start=3D =
2, size=3D 7989246, Id=3D b=0A/dev/sdd2 : start=3D 0, size=3D =
0, Id=3D 0=0A/dev/sdd3 : start=3D 0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=
=0A/dev/sdd4 : start=3D 0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=0A=0A3. New fil=
e sytem made by vfdisk and mkdosfs (working in the media player):=0A=0A# pa=
rtition table of /dev/sdd=0Aunit: sectors=0A=0A/dev/sdd1 : start=3D 5=
2, size=3D 7989196, Id=3D b=0A/dev/sdd2 : start=3D 0, size=3D =
0, Id=3D 0=0A/dev/sdd3 : start=3D 0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=0A/=
dev/sdd4 : start=3D 0, size=3D 0, Id=3D 0=0A=0AIt seems that =
openSUSE does not require the partition type to be set correctly=0Afor succ=
essful mounting while the media player requires it.=0A=0AI still have to ch=
eck the device in a Mac.=0A=0AIstvan=0A

[Greg Freemyer]

I have had similar issues where some devices are very particular about
the filesystem type in the partition table. I've also had them
require the "boot" or "active" flag in the partition table be set.

I'd need to check the docs to get the right name for that flag if anyone cares.

In general linux does not pay attention to the filesystem type in the
partition table when mounting most filesystem types.

Greg

[Carlos E. R.]

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Post by Istvan Gabor
My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.vfat that the formatted
partition is not functional everywhere? How could I make fat32 formatted
partition in openSUSE which is usable in my media player and is
mountable in Mac OSX?

Perhaps:

-F FAT-size
Specifies the type of file allocation tables
used (12, 16 or 32 bit). If nothing is spec-
ified, mkfs.fat will automatically select
between 12, 16 and 32 bit, whatever fits bet-
ter for the filesystem size.


You could try "file -s /dev/sdX*" to find out how it is formatted.

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
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[Greg Freemyer]

Post by Istvan Gabor
I have a usb flash disk with one partition. I have formatted this
partition in openSUSE 12.2 using mkfs.vfat. The formatted partition
could be mounted in openSUSE and in Windows XP, but my media player
could not see the partition (gave error message) and Mac OSX could not
mount it either. I have reformatted the partition in the Mac (I can't
remember the application's name) and now the disk is usable in my media
player along with Mac OSX, openSUSE and Windows.
My question: what is missing in openSUSE mkfs.vfat that the formatted
partition is not functional everywhere? How could I make fat32
formatted partition in openSUSE which is usable in my media player and
is mountable in Mac OSX?
Thanks,
Istvan

I'd like to know more about the details of this. I have a Mac I can dual boot into MacOS, but I rarely do that. If you tell me what tool you used on both openSUSE and the Mac and the size of the flash drive I could try to duplicate it.

Fyi: I have some filesystem analysis tools so I could send some reasonably detailed bug reports upstream.

Greg