Discussion:
Relative number of users of OpenSuse 11.0 vs OpenSuse 11.1?
(too old to reply)
Dan Kegel
2009-06-05 23:14:39 UTC
Permalink
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
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Andrew Joakimsen
2009-06-06 03:06:34 UTC
Permalink
My main machine I upgraded openSUSE 11.0 -> 11.1 without any problems.
There were issues with the ATI drivers that caused me to do a clean
install, but that did not resolve the issue. So I lived with jerky
screensavers for about a month and now the newest ATI driver in the
repository doesn't lock up the machine!
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users.  How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1?  Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse?  Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
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JB2
2009-06-06 04:06:57 UTC
Permalink
My main machine I <snip>
Please stop top-posting to the openSUSE mailing list. Thanks.
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Dan Kegel
2009-06-06 04:32:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users.  How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1?  Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse?  Are these statistics available anywhere?
I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
(only counting each IP address once).
Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
or an unknown browser.
Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.

Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
date firefox?
- Dan
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Rajko M.
2009-06-06 06:53:41 UTC
Permalink
... Are these statistics available anywhere?
http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics
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Per Jessen
2009-06-06 08:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Dunno about stats, but I still have a 9.0 system in active service - and
until very recently also a 7.0 and an 8.2. The 9.0 is not critical
productrion and certain due for an upgrade, so realistically 10.2 is
probably the "oldest".


/Per
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Peter Nikolic
2009-06-06 09:45:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
(only counting each IP address once).
Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
or an unknown browser.
Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
date firefox?
- Dan
Well i am messing with 11.2 right now and if the games i am having getting
firefox 3.0.8 to accept plugins is any guide then as soon as i have found a
way to rescue my software and data form the drive that has died i will be back
on 10.3 and Seamonkey .

I can handle a bit of messing about to get things working but it seems suse is
making it ever harder to get a decent working system with working browser
plugins and working multimedia but no things have to stick to some archaic law
saying no to anything not 10,000000% squeaky and it gets silly

Pete not so far impressed and definately not going back on the cowboy
factory list

YMMV mine will not

11.2 is a passing fad it will fade out to 10.3
Ken Schneider - openSUSE
2009-06-06 13:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Nikolic
Post by Dan Kegel
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
(only counting each IP address once).
Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
or an unknown browser.
Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
date firefox?
- Dan
Well i am messing with 11.2 right now and if the games i am having getting
firefox 3.0.8 to accept plugins is any guide then as soon as i have found a
way to rescue my software and data form the drive that has died i will be back
on 10.3 and Seamonkey.
What's wrong with 11.1 and KDE3? And, you have to expect glitches with
alpha releases. Did you file any bug reports for the problems you
encountered? Without bug reports devs won't know of specific problems.
Post by Peter Nikolic
I can handle a bit of messing about to get things working but it seems suse is
making it ever harder to get a decent working system with working browser
plugins and working multimedia but no things have to stick to some archaic law
saying no to anything not 10,000000% squeaky and it gets silly
Pete not so far impressed and definately not going back on the cowboy
factory list
YMMV mine will not
11.2 is a passing fad it will fade out to 10.3
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SuSe since Version 5.2, June 1998
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Larry Stotler
2009-06-06 13:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users.  How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1?  Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse?  Are these statistics available anywhere?
11.0/KDE3 on all systems running openSUSE.
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Robert Smits
2009-06-06 15:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
I've got my work system running 103/KDE3, as is my wife's computer. My laptop
and two desktops are running 11.0/KDE3 as I don't care for changes made in
11.1 and won't use KDE4 until it gets much more complete. I'll probably wait
until 11.3 to try upgrading again.
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David C. Rankin
2009-06-06 19:53:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Joakimsen
My main machine I upgraded openSUSE 11.0 -> 11.1 without any problems.
There were issues with the ATI drivers that caused me to do a clean
install, but that did not resolve the issue. So I lived with jerky
screensavers for about a month and now the newest ATI driver in the
repository doesn't lock up the machine!
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
Andrew hit the nail on the head!

If you have an older ATI card (older than the 2400 Series), then you no
longer have driver support from ATI. ATI dropped all support for all users of
*all* previous cards.

The problem is that on many of the older *legacy* cards, the last working
driver was the 8-9 release (Ver. 8.532) which has no support for xorg 7.4 (the
version packaged with 11.1). On many older cards the 8-10 through 9-3 (the
last driver with legacy support) drivers simply "do not work."

For example, (my situation) if you have ATI hardware that doesn't work with
the 9.3 driver -- you are hosed and you are stuck using 11.0 until you upgrade
your graphics card. Otherwise, you will have *no fglrx* driver to use in 11.1.
If you have a laptop -- you are just hosed. You must stay with 11.0 or upgrade
and switch to the radeonhd driver.

The radeonhd driver is getting much better and works fine, but face it,
performance is still about 20-50% of what you get with the fglrx driver.
Additionally, for laptop users, the downclocking/powerdown capabilities of the
radeonhd driver are still in work and the lack of downclocking can cause your
laptop to run extremely hot -- solely due to the heat produced by the ATI gpu
without the proprietary downclocking and unused chip circuitry powerdown
provided by the fglrx driver.

Running the radeonhd driver on my Toshiba laptop causes such extreme heat
production, I can fry eggs on the palm rest. (literally, I have to lift my
hands off the palm rest continually to avoid the heat: 96-97 deg. F palm rest
temp and Left Fan Discharge: 147 Deg. F) [The left fan discharge is just below
the palm rest] That's with:

Option "ForceLowPowerMode"
Option "LowPowerModeEngineClock" "140000"

Using the fglrx driver, there is no heat problem on the palm rest and the
Left Fan Discharge temp drops to 122 deg. F. (That's a 25 deg. F drop just due
to gpu chipset power control)

So for my laptop situation, with a legacy card that will not work with the
9-3 release, I am stuck using 11.0 until EOL, and by then I will have a new
laptop with an NVIDIA gpu in it.

With that background, the answer to your question is simple. If you are not
affected by a hardware issue that requires you stay with 11.0, then by all
means run 11.1. If you are stuck running 11.0, you can still install the
latest and greatest KDE desktop, and all of the other latest apps. So the
actual "difference" between running 11.0 or 11.1 to the end user is nothing
more than a kernel version difference. If your hardware doesn't require any
new feature only available in the 11.1 kernel, then the release choice really
becomes a "who cares" issue aside from the EOL support time remaining. (which
is in itself is increasingly more of a "who cares" issue due to bug fix times
and priority)

So check your hardware, pick a release number, pop the DVD in the tray and
reboot ;-) Both 11.0 and 11.1 are fine (10.3 still works great for that
matter)
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Dan Kegel
2009-06-06 21:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rajko M.
http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics
Great, thanks!

Those numbers are a bit hard to read (how do you get
a count for the current week of 10.3 users?),
but they are perfect for comparing 11.0 and 11.1.
26 weeks in to 11.1, the ratio of 11.1 to 11.0 users is
242000 to 112000, or roughly 2:1.

The number of 11.0 IP addresses appears to be decreasing
by about 3000 per week, so three months later,
the ratio will probably be about 4:1.

This makes me happy - I can probably depend on
LSB 3.2 for a product launching in Q3 or Q4 without losing
too many opensuse users.
- Dan
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J. L. Turriff
2009-06-07 02:48:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users.  How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1?  Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse?  Are these statistics available anywhere?
I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
(only counting each IP address once).
Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
or an unknown browser.
Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
date firefox?
- Dan
Wouldn't surprise me. Because of its monstrous footprint and sluggishness I
only use it when a website won't work with Konqueror.

Leslie
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Per Jessen
2009-06-07 07:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
Post by Rajko M.
http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics
Great, thanks!
Those numbers are a bit hard to read (how do you get
a count for the current week of 10.3 users?),
but they are perfect for comparing 11.0 and 11.1.
26 weeks in to 11.1, the ratio of 11.1 to 11.0 users is
242000 to 112000, or roughly 2:1.
The number of 11.0 IP addresses appears to be decreasing
by about 3000 per week, so three months later,
the ratio will probably be about 4:1.
This makes me happy - I can probably depend on
LSB 3.2 for a product launching in Q3 or Q4 without losing
too many opensuse users.
- Dan
Depending on your product, it might be worth pointing out that those
stats are desktop-only or at least desktop-mostly. People tend to be
much more conservative when it comes to maintaining production servers.


/Per
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Carlos E. R.
2009-06-07 08:54:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rajko M.
... Are these statistics available anywhere?
http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics
Interesting!

The text would benefit from some clarification, though. Like the
correspondence between week numbers and calendar dates. Or a clarification
of the difference between table 1 and 2.

Or, in the first paragraph:

“This page contains a variety of statistics about
openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org”

... I don't understand the last part, the reference to smolts :-?

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
Adam Tauno WIlliams
2009-06-07 13:37:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Nikolic
Post by Dan Kegel
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
I just looked at the user agent strings in my web server's logs
(only counting each IP address once).
Of those containing SUSE, about one third were using Firefox 1x or 2.x
or an unknown browser.
Another third were using Firefox 3.x, but not 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
The final third were using Firefox 3.0.10 or 3.5beta.
Could it really be that only a third of all Suse users have an up to
date firefox?
- Dan
Well i am messing with 11.2 right now and if the games i am having getting
firefox 3.0.8 to accept plugins is any guide then as soon as i have found a
way to rescue my software and data form the drive that has died i will be back
on 10.3 and Seamonkey .
I'm using 11.1 on both my workstation and my laptop and everything,
including multimedia, works perfectly. No fuss.
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Larry Stotler
2009-06-07 17:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos E. R.
... I don't understand the last part, the reference to smolts :-?
http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware/Smolt

It's a data collection app included in 11.1 and addable to older
versions. I remember using it last fall from a number of machines.

Started out as a Fedora project, but openSUSE joined in.
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Carlos E. R.
2009-06-07 19:33:56 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Larry Stotler
Post by Carlos E. R.
... I don't understand the last part, the reference to smolts :-?
http://en.opensuse.org/Hardware/Smolt
I know what is Smolt.

But I don't understand that paragraph:

] "This page contains a variety of statistics about
] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"

What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at
smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt data
shown in the opensuse stats page? Are those stats made of apache logs or
smolt data?

Ie, what means the reference to smolt in that particular paragraph?

My guess is that it may be a leftover from another paragraph removed in
the wiki, or that the author was thinking of something else and didn't
complete the writing.

Can you explain it, please?

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.

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Anders Johansson
2009-06-07 19:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos E. R.
] "This page contains a variety of statistics about
] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"
What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at
smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt data
shown in the opensuse stats page?
It's not. The sentence you quote says "on this page you will only find what is
in our apache logs - if you want more, go to smolts.org where you will find
user contributed data"

Same sentence, slightly rephrased

Anders
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Carlos E. R.
2009-06-07 20:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders Johansson
Post by Carlos E. R.
] "This page contains a variety of statistics about
] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org"
What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at
smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt data
shown in the opensuse stats page?
It's not. The sentence you quote says "on this page you will only find what is
in our apache logs - if you want more, go to smolts.org where you will find
user contributed data"
Same sentence, slightly rephrased
Ah! That's it what it should read, but it doesn't. My Firefox displays
this, instead:

This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org

(see the attached photo if you don't believe it)

However, if I copy-paste the text into this email, I get this, instead:

"This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They
are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user
contributed data you can find at smolts.org"


So, I have discovered a bug either in the wiki or in firefox!

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
jdd
2009-06-07 20:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos E. R.
This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage.
They are purely generated from the apache logs of
download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at smolts.org
--------------------------^ this comma should be a dot, and "you can"
should be written at the beginning of the sentence

it's true that this phrasing is confusing. But not anybody is english
native (beginning with me :-)

jdd
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Anders Johansson
2009-06-07 20:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carlos E. R.
Post by Anders Johansson
Post by Carlos E. R.
] "This page contains a variety of statistics about
] openSUSE's usage. They are purely generated from the apache logs of
] download.opensuse.org, user contributed data you can find at
smolts.org"
What has to do the apache logs of download.opensuse.org with data at
smolts.org, how are they correlating those two sources, how is smolt
data shown in the opensuse stats page?
It's not. The sentence you quote says "on this page you will only find
what is in our apache logs - if you want more, go to smolts.org where you
will find user contributed data"
Same sentence, slightly rephrased
Ah! That's it what it should read, but it doesn't. My Firefox displays
I'm not saying I read a different text on the page. I just reworded the
sentence, in the hopes that it would be easier for you to understand.
Post by Carlos E. R.
This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They
are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user
contributed data you can find at smolts.org
(see the attached photo if you don't believe it)
"This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They
are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user
contributed data you can find at smolts.org"
I see absolutely no difference between these two

Anders
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Carlos E. R.
2009-06-07 21:24:23 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Anders Johansson
Post by Carlos E. R.
Ah! That's it what it should read, but it doesn't. My Firefox displays
I'm not saying I read a different text on the page. I just reworded the
sentence, in the hopes that it would be easier for you to understand.
Ah, ok, I see. Yes, your paragraph is way easier to understand.
Post by Anders Johansson
Post by Carlos E. R.
"This page contains a variety of statistics about openSUSE's usage. They
are purely generated from the apache logs of download.opensuse.org, user
contributed data you can find at smolts.org"
I see absolutely no difference between these two
Argh. Sorry.

I did it twice. The first time the copy buffer had your version, instead
of the one on firefox, don't know how. I repeated, with the result you see
above, but my mind "saw" the previous version instead. I looked, but my
mind saw what was not there!

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.

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Dan Goodman
2009-06-08 14:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
Datapoint:

Went from 10.3 to an upgrade of 11.1 with an attempt at using several
different desktops via toggling back and forth.

This led to dependency issues, among other things, so I subsequently did
a clean install of 11.1, keeping only my /home filesystem. That time I
went with only Gnome for desktop management.

Have not had any significant issues now for the last three or four
months. I update regularly, and often try suggested "tweaks" from here
and elsewhere.

Plan to go with an upgrade to 11.2 when it arrives.

Overall, I am satisfied with 11.1, although I share some of the concerns
about overall direction that others have expressed here.

Biggest issue for me is when and if I re-try KDE.
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Roger Oberholtzer
2009-06-08 14:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Kegel
I'm trying to decide whether depending on LSB 3.2 is going to
cut out a lot of users. How far along are folks on moving to
OpenSuse 11.1? Or are a large fraction of users still on older
versions of OpenSuse? Are these statistics available anywhere?
Thanks,
Dan
Data point:

Updated three or four systems from 10.x to 11.1. All server system
working great. All desktop systems working at the level of 10.3 when I
run KDE 3.5. When I run KDE 4.2.3 they are also working great. Only
thing not working is compiz effects with an NVIDIA 9400 GT card. My
desktop use is mainly software development (file access, compile, run
vmware).
--
Roger Oberholtzer

OPQ Systems / Ramböll RST

Ramböll Sverige AB
Krukmakargatan 21
P.O. Box 17009
SE-104 62 Stockholm, Sweden

Office: Int +46 8-615 60 20
Mobile: Int +46 70-815 1696
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Adam Tauno Williams
2009-06-08 15:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Goodman
Have not had any significant issues now for the last three or four
months. I update regularly, and often try suggested "tweaks" from here
and elsewhere.
Plan to go with an upgrade to 11.2 when it arrives.
Overall, I am satisfied with 11.1, although I share some of the concerns
about overall direction that others have expressed here.
Ditto for me. GNOME desktop on 11.1 is the best desktop experience I've
had; been running it since the week 11.1 came out. No temptation to
switch to anything else and I have no doubts 11.2 will be even better.
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