Discussion:
Booting systems : Boot-Loaders
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ellanios82
2014-10-20 14:11:02 UTC
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Hello List .

- as we are enjoying such talented genii as mr Lennart :

Is it not painful and unnecessary pain that we still have occasional
problems "Booting our Systems"

...............

- maybe such genius as mr Lennart could invent a totally reliable
Boot-System that never failed :

to which , after booting , our openSUSE systems may be attached ?

...........

just an optimist
regards
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Cristian Rodríguez
2014-10-20 14:28:51 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
Hello List .
Is it not painful and unnecessary pain that we still have occasional
problems "Booting our Systems"
...............
- maybe such genius as mr Lennart could invent a totally reliable
to which , after booting , our openSUSE systems may be attached ?
...........
just an optimist
regards
What do you mean exactly?

a bootloader ?

if so gummiboot was designed to be used with systemd.. but it is an uefi
bootloader that will never support traditional bios.

a initrd generator ?

dracut is the default in 13.2/factory which is driven by systemd "in
initrd".

It is not clear what problem are you trying to solve and why...
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ellanios82
2014-10-20 14:39:28 UTC
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Post by Cristian Rodríguez
It is not clear what problem are you trying to solve and why...
________

- thank you : i do not know enough to be scientific :

what i dream of is a booting system that is nuke-proof and always works

................

thanks
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Ken Schneider
2014-10-20 14:43:47 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
Post by Cristian Rodríguez
It is not clear what problem are you trying to solve and why...
________
what i dream of is a booting system that is nuke-proof and always works
................
thanks
DOS :-)

Ken
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ellanios82
2014-10-20 14:56:31 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
nuke-proof and always works
Post by ellanios82
................
thanks
DOS :-)
Ken
..........................

- not to be forgotten ! : i do use DOSEMU daily

............

regards
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ellanios82
2014-10-20 14:45:19 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
Post by Cristian Rodríguez
It is not clear what problem are you trying to solve and why...
________
.................................

LILO seemed originally to be straight forward

- grub and grub2 seem to be less & less straight forward

.............

regards
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Cristian Rodríguez
2014-10-20 14:59:16 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
LILO seemed originally to be straight forward
- grub and grub2 seem to be less & less straight forward
Grub2 can be made to understand gummiboot-style configuration files,
which are much more nicer and simple ..however openSUSE releases do not
carry the relevant patch. at least not yet.
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Anton Aylward
2014-10-20 16:39:56 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
LILO seemed originally to be straight forward
"Yes, it used to be, but we changed all that."

The most significant change is that we are using larger disks so a lot
of how the original LILO specified how to peel off the second stage boot
no longer makes sense.

In fact the old cylinder - sector - head model got stretched out of all
recognition. If you address certain sectors then -- oops, that's a bad
patch on the disk and the disk electronics have a means of doing a
look-aside to another place on the disk. And guess where the code that
does all that lives? Right. And guess what happens if that gets
corrupted, as happened to me earlier this year...

And once you start dealing with SATA ...

And all of this part of the boot has nothing what so ever to do with
systemd. That happens after the first stage boot, and even after the
boot process has peeled off all the stuff surrounding grub (or grub2 or
lilo or whatever), and it takes grub (...) to bring in initrd, which
gets the kernel in place. Perhaps that's what you mean by "boot"?

Only after that all has happened do we get to systemd initializing user
side processes (that is, non kernel stuff).

So now we can segue from Voltaire to Carroll:

<quote>
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it
means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many
different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's
all.'
</quote>

and then again

<quote>
'If I'd meant that, I'd have said it,' said Humpty Dumpty.
</quote>


And then there's matters like being able to boot alternative things
(which may not simply be operating systems, and which may not even be on
the same drive as the boot stuff you're talking about) and setting up
the console so you can see the menu, regardless of what the screen is,
and making sure you are using it at a suitable resolution.

If you can get LILO do do all this I'm delighted, but thank you I'll
continue to use grub2 and initrd to boot my system into a situation
where systemd can start initializing processes in the user space.
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Per Jessen
2014-10-21 07:24:00 UTC
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Post by Anton Aylward
Post by ellanios82
LILO seemed originally to be straight forward
"Yes, it used to be, but we changed all that."
The most significant change is that we are using larger disks so a lot
of how the original LILO specified how to peel off the second stage
boot no longer makes sense.
In fact the old cylinder - sector - head model got stretched out of
all recognition. If you address certain sectors then -- oops, that's
a bad patch on the disk and the disk electronics have a means of doing
a look-aside to another place on the disk. And guess where the code
that does all that lives? Right. And guess what happens if that gets
corrupted, as happened to me earlier this year...
And once you start dealing with SATA ...
No problems there, Anton. LILO works just fine.
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http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
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Anton Aylward
2014-10-21 12:39:34 UTC
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Post by Per Jessen
Post by Anton Aylward
Post by ellanios82
LILO seemed originally to be straight forward
"Yes, it used to be, but we changed all that."
The most significant change is that we are using larger disks so a lot
of how the original LILO specified how to peel off the second stage
boot no longer makes sense.
In fact the old cylinder - sector - head model got stretched out of
all recognition. If you address certain sectors then -- oops, that's
a bad patch on the disk and the disk electronics have a means of doing
a look-aside to another place on the disk. And guess where the code
that does all that lives? Right. And guess what happens if that gets
corrupted, as happened to me earlier this year...
And once you start dealing with SATA ...
No problems there, Anton. LILO works just fine.
Nice to know.
But now I've got Dracut to help me with the initrd, and grub2 letting me
edit things when I need to, I'm a happy camper with this part of the
boot process.

Now if only i could have equal confidence in teh disks themselves.
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Per Jessen
2014-10-21 07:22:00 UTC
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Post by ellanios82
Post by ellanios82
Post by Cristian Rodríguez
It is not clear what problem are you trying to solve and why...
________
.................................
LILO seemed originally to be straight forward
LILO is straight forward. That's all I ever use.
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Per Jessen, Zürich (14.8°C)
http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland.
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